What No One Tells You About Running a Lasting, Profitable Business

Not a shocker, running a business is really hard. You spend all your time, your energy, your capital into growing the business. And then you get to the top and it's really lonely.

And there are problems that emerge that are new. You're being pulled and stretched in brand new ways, which can be super uncomfortable. And it's challenging because like, who do you talk to? But you don't have to remain lonely.

You don't have to be running on thin margins. I think there's a better way of doing business. And I'm excited to have this conversation with you.

Yeah, I'm excited. Totally agree. So what do you think makes it hard? When you get to the top, you're doing all this work.

And I feel like you think you're doing it for yourself and for your family, but then you don't feel like that at the end. I think it's the balancing act. And that's most people don't talk about.

If you go on the internet, I mean, there are so many talking heads that refer to business as this wonderful thing, which it is, right. But it's like, okay, come up with an idea, go out there and implement the idea, start building a business. And all of a sudden you're going to make millions of dollars.

But the truth is it's a grind. Like I remember when I was starting my first company, all my friends were like, Steve, come out with us. Like, we're going to go to the movie or come to this party or go to this baseball game with us, whatever it was.

And I'm like, I got to chill. I got to be at home. I have to build this brochure or this presentation for tomorrow.

And they're like, come on. And I'm like, no, I can't. So I make a lot of sacrifices early on because I was constantly building my business.

And it's not just that, like if you're in your twenties, like when I was first starting my company, I was single as in my, you know, early late teens, I should say. Then I got into my twenties and building this business. I'm single and sure.

I had a girlfriend, but I didn't have the responsibilities of being a husband and a father. So I could just crank, you know, until two in the morning. And then everything was great because is all my time then introduced the family.

And now all of a sudden you're building this business, your partner, your spouse, your significant other, they're more demanding of your time, which is not a bad thing, but then also your kids, they require more of your attention while at the same time, you're trying to get customers. You're trying to grow the business. You're trying to watch cashflow and you're trying to make sure that the business doesn't blow up in the meantime.

And I think that's the challenge that's unspoken.

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So what would you say? Because it sounds like the beginning of building a business and it's just sounds like you're doing a lot of grinding. Do you think it's a fair comparison to people in all life stages when they're beginning a business or do you think it kind of depends we are in life and if the grinding is worth it or if it's consistent throughout?

Yeah, I think it depends and it depends on the business too. I've known some founders and they come up with a great idea and they put it out to market and immediately they have product market fit and the business just takes off like a rocket ship and they go from a few thousand dollars in sales to millions in sales really quickly. And that's a different type of scale and different type of chaos because the wheels are falling off the bus very quickly. They have early on success and they could be exciting and it could give them the momentum needed to like just grind it out and put in all the hours.

But then I know other business owners and like, Hey, I'm going to start a plumbing company and they're like, I got to go get customers and I got to go get a truck and I got to go get tools and I got to organize my parts. They're thinking about all the things that they have to manage on top of the back end where they need to do accounting and they're billing and they HR and set a payroll and, Oh, I need a tax ID number and all this stuff. And it could be so overwhelming and so slow that oftentimes people hit a wall because they're not seeing that hockey stick growth and they could just, they're like, all right, I'm just going to go get a job with somebody else or whatever it may be, but they give up.

And so I think it depends on the type of business, but then also the life cycle. When I was 20, sure. I had more time to just grind it out and to work all these hours.

But now as I've gotten older, you know, I'm 45 right now. I have tools in frameworks and experiences that I didn't have when I was 20. And that allows me to shortcut a lot of things because now I look back on what I was doing in my twenties and I think, Oh my gosh, I could do it so much faster.

Plus on top of that, just think of what's happening with the world, with AI and everything else. We were talking about that earlier. I mean, you can use AI and do the same task that you used to do in 20 hours in like 20 minutes.

So it was just accelerating.

 

So you're talking about your younger self and how you view yourself in a different light compared to 45 year old you, what advice would you give to 20 year old you in that position?

I would just say, get out there and have as many experiences as possible and just build skillsets and capabilities. When I started my first business as a landscape company, I started out my sister's garage. I was 16 years old and here I was meeting with these homeowners. And as my projects got bigger and higher end, I started working with more successful people, like wealthier people. And here I was like in my twenties, I remember going to meet with CEOs who were running companies that are multi-millionaires and I'm pitching them on my landscaping services.

And so like that experience and that exposure to interacting with executives early on, I didn't connect the dots at the time, but it gave me the confidence. So later on when I would go work with executives or when I became a CEO or CFO of a billion dollar company in my thirties, my late thirties, I had the confidence because I knew how to work with people and communicate with high level executives. And so those skills are very transferable.

Right. And so when you're 20 or you're 30, it's like, you need to learn how to read financial statements. You need to learn how to code.

You don't have to be this coding nerd and develop all these lines of codes, but it's okay. Just learn the basics, the fundamentals of what it requires to be successful nowadays in business, analytics, financials, coding, sales and marketing, all these skills that are required. Because as time goes on, business just accelerates and it gets more complicated.

And then you don't have the time. You don't have the resources to go back and build skill sets, if that makes sense.

Yeah.

So where do you think established founders are spending all their time and energy right now? And do you think it's the right place or should they focus somewhere else?

Yeah. I think established founders, they build these companies and oftentimes they're the technician. So they're really successful at a trade or a skill or whatever. They leave, they go start their own company and it just starts to grow. Whether it grows like a hockey stick, like I was talking about, or slowly. Eventually they find themselves running these businesses and every time they add a layer or hire more employees or innovate their products or incorporate a new process, it just introduces more complexity.

So then they find themselves running these businesses that are super complex and sometimes they're all janky, right? There's a lot of friction. There's a lot of waste. Some things don't connect with each other and they find themselves as the orchestrator trying to hold everything together.

And that's when a lot of founders and owners, they burn out because what they used to love doing, they're not doing anymore. Now they're just trying to keep everything together and they're putting out fires and they're managing people and they're dealing with customers. And it could be overwhelming and it's because they lack a system to run their business.

I think that's the big challenge out there in business today.

What would you say to someone who's making a lot of money, but they feel like they're running on empty or they just don't have a personal life to them anymore?

Yeah, I think that's the margin crisis that exists out there in the world today. I'm a big financial strategy guy. I always talk about combining those two together drives a lot of value. And I went around the country for years talking about strategic finance and then had to take a step back and it's like, now I'm interacting with millionaires and billionaires and I've realized that they have a lot of money, but then their life is collapsing around them. They're on the verge of a divorce.

Their kids don't really know them. Their friends, they disappeared years ago. And it's like, sure, they have all this money, but they're empty inside.

I can't tell you how many CEOs and founders I talked to, and they just feel like non empty, like what's life, what's life all about. And, and it's also interesting that when you get to this point, that the business almost becomes like the center point of your life. And so I was talking to a founder just recently, and he's done a great job building this very successful company, right? His business is profitable.

They do a lot of revenue. He's made a lot of money. And we're talking about like, what's his exit plan.

And he's like, Steve, I'm getting older, but what am I going to do if I sell my business? Sure. It'd be nice to get a big lump sum, but he's like, that's my whole identity. That's my family.

That's what I've been waking up for the last 25 years doing day after day. And I think it's very pervasive. I just talked to another president yesterday and they just sold their business and the founder of that company.

And the same kind of thing is true. He's like, I was so used to the fight, like getting up every day and just fighting and just like building this thing and putting all my energy into it. And then he sold.

And then now he took this like consulting position with the company. So they don't really need them. And he's like, dang, I don't really feel needed.

And what's my purpose? And it could be, it could be really challenging. So you could have all this money in the world, but if you sacrifice everything else, you just like lose yourself in the process.

Yeah, definitely.

I think it's important that people need to recognize that it's more than financial margin. It's also leadership margin, life margin, turning to the financial side of that. You always say lots of businesses are profitable on paper, but in reality, that's not their case.

How does that translate into margin and more financial margin?

Yeah. I think like the biggest mistake is that business owners, they'll look at their income statement, which shows their revenue and their costs and their profit. And they'll look at the bottom line and like, yeah, I'm making money. I'm making a few million bucks a year. I have a 8% net profit margin. Pretty good. You know, it's not great, but it's pretty good. And they're like, you know, things are, things are looking great on paper, like you mentioned. But then there's the cashflow perspective.

70% of companies that go bankrupt are actually profitable when they close their doors. So they have profits, but they run out of cashflow because they're not paying attention to their working capital or the investments they're making into their property plant equipment, like buying trucks and trailers and buildings, et cetera. But more than that, so there's cash flows, obviously king, but then there's this thing called return on invested capital and not to get super nerdy with you, but if you take net operating profit after tax, your operating profit after tax and you divide that by your invested capital, like how much money have you put into the business? And you do the math on that.

This is what shocks business owners because they do the math and it's like, I'm earning a 5% return on my invested capital. And I tell them jokingly, I'll say this, you know, it's a little bit of humor. You should just sell your business, liquidate everything, and then put all your money into the stock market, earn a 10% return. And that's what the market's been doing over the last 50 years. And then you don't have to deal with customers, the headache of employees and all this, like the grind that goes along with running a business because you're earning far below what the market's returning, right? For zero effort.

Now I say that with humor, like don't go sell your business if you're listening to this, but it just means that owners, they're not measuring margin in the right way. They're measuring financial margin, or they're looking at their income statement, they're looking at profit margin, but they're not looking at the margin or the spread between what are they putting in the business. And at the end of the day, what are the true returns of that investment, that time investment, energy investment, and the capital investment.

Have you ever seen a founder or CEO ever outsmart themselves in their business? They think one way is the best or etc. Have you ever seen that before working with so many companies?

Yeah. I mean, I've seen founders and look, all the founders are brilliant in their own way. I'll start with the most basic example.

I was talking with the CEO just recently, they were doing some work for his company. And he, over the last three decades, he built a very successful large company. And he's like, Steve, I've never done the strategy work or the academic stuff. I don't have an MBA. I went to design school. And I'm like, that doesn't matter. Look how successful you've been in other ways.

So degrees don't really mean anything. Because you could have all the degrees in the world and be super educated, but that doesn't guarantee results. But then on the other side, to answer your question, I've worked with CEOs and they have a ton of knowledge. They're very smart. They've read a lot of books. They've read all the business books, all the strategy books. They're very well educated. They have big degrees, oftentimes advanced degrees, but they make terrible mistakes in their business.

I think the biggest problem is that they chase the shiny objects. And what I mean by that is they're the victim of listening to a podcast, watching a YouTube video, reading something in the Harvard Business Review or Wall Street Journal or whatever it is, or some other expert said this, or some advisor said that, and then they shift gears. And what they do is they, they whiplash their employees.

So they're like, okay, we're going in this direction. This is our strategy. And this is the framework. We're going to do this, this, and this, and that. And then like two months later, like actually this is the strategy. And then they change the strategy and they get just like, like I said, just whiplash their employees through just like whipping them back and forth.

And that could create a lot of confusion because every time you switch, I mean, you've experienced it too. You know, like at Coltivar, we'll like switch things around. And every time you do, you like have to take a step back and it wastes so much time, energy and resources.

And I think to your question about outsmarting themselves, I think you just overthink things so much and you could overthink strategy so much. It's like really simple strategies about identifying a constraint we call the strategic problem. And then allocating a disproportionate amount of resources to solving that one constraint and sticking with it until you solve the constraint.

And then you grow and then you approach the next constraint and then you grow, et cetera. So that's how leaders can make things this overly complicated and chase the shiny objects.

And what I mean by that is they're the victim of listening to a podcast, watching a YouTube video, reading something in the Harvard Business Review or Wall Street Journal or whatever it is, or some other experts said this, or some advisors said that, and then they shift gears. And what they do is they, they whiplash their employees.

So they're like, okay, we're going in this direction. This is our strategy. And this is the framework.

We're going to do this, this, and this, and that. And then like two months later, like actually this is the strategy. And then they change the strategy and they get just like, like I said, just whiplash their employees through just like whipping them back and forth.

And that could create a lot of confusion because every time you switch, I mean, you've experienced it too. You know, like I called for, we'll like switch things around. And every time you do, you like have to take a step back and it wastes so much time, energy and resources.

And I think to your question about outsmarting themselves, I think you just overthink things so much and you could overthink strategy so much. It's like really simple strategies about identifying a constraint we call the strategic problem. And then allocating a disproportionate amount of resources to solving that one constraint and sticking with it until you solve the constraint.

And then you grow and then you approach the next constraint and then you grow, et cetera. So that's how leaders can make things this overly complicated and chase the shiny objects.

Yeah.

I think that's a good point. Cause I feel like repositioning or changing things, it takes a lot of time, energy and brain power to refocus. And it's not like you can hop into something a hundred percent.

You have to learn it and get used to it until it becomes your new familiar. What is one thing about running a business that people don't necessarily expect would be so hard? I think what's happening in the world today is making business even more challenging. And in what that is, is this trend with technology and artificial intelligence.

So if you think about it, like, especially for tech companies, we have our own tech stack. We work with other technology companies and it's like over time, the cost of software development has radically collapsed. So go back in time with the invention of Facebook.

I mean, that's like Mark Zuckerberg and a few people like just nerding out all my coding and into the late hours developing this platform. And they're literally like coding ones and zeros to build up, you know, Facebook, what it is today. And if you think about it, like now with low code platforms, with AI and everything else, you can build a Facebook copycat probably in a week.

Okay. I'm just simplifying things, but you can build the same mechanics very quickly. The problem is the cost of developments going down at the same time, the cost of acquiring attention or acquiring customers leads is going up.

And so you're in this like crossfire of things. So I think for businesses, you could adopt new technologies. You can, you could build platforms, you could build communities, but then trying to get that attention is like super challenging.

I mean, we've seen it at Coltivar just with like growing our social media channels or whatnot. It's, it takes a lot of time and a lot of effort to capture people's attention. And so growing a business that go in and get leads, your cost of acquisition is constantly rising.

And that squeezes margin in a lot of different areas.

So it sounds like being a founder is stressful. What do you think for the founders who are asking themselves, am I just building myself a really stressful job?

Yeah. I think, you know, at the beginning I said, it's hard, running a business is hard, but it doesn't have to be that way. I think that's the hope that I want to get founders because sure. I'm talking about like all the grind and like the chaos and the complexity that enters into businesses.

But look, I think business is one of the best vehicles out there to bless the lives of people. And at Coltivar, like years ago when I decided, what is our purpose? I came up with a very simple phrase. It's to elevate the lives of people through better business.

And I believe that, you know, I've worked with companies and things are terrible for the owners and the founders. They're fighting with each other, or it's a single owner and they're like super depressed. You go in there, you put in place a system, you give them more financial margin, you create other things in the business so it runs like more smoothly.

And all of a sudden things are great. The founder goes in, they're excited, they're re-energized by their team, their bank account is growing, they're paying down their debt. And it's really fun.

They're just creating new products. They're helping a lot of people. They're solving a lot of problems.

And that's the upside. So I wouldn't trade any of the hard, any of the hard for a job. And trust me, there are some days where I'm like, what am I doing? I'm just going to throw in the towel.

It'd be so much easier to go get a CFO job, get paid a salary and just like not have to worry about it. Like, trust me. But the upside of transforming lives, that's what's worth it to me.

So if you're in this position and you're like, what am I doing? I'm grinding. I'm about to give up. I'd say, don't give up.

Like it's okay to pivot. Just don't give up. There are days I don't want to record videos.

I don't want to do a podcast episode. I don't want to talk to a client, but you have to force yourself to get through these moments because once you get through the moment, like things constantly become better, right? They become better over time.

So you keep referring to a system that is what ultimately turns around and makes the lives and businesses of these founders better. What are the aspects of that system that is making that change and changing their lives?

I read a book a while back is I think it's called the checklist manifesto. And it is talking about like in the healthcare industry, just by following a checklist, so many lives are being saved. I mean, think about with surgery.

It's like, okay, first thing you do, you wash your hands and you put on your gloves and there's a checklist. And if you follow the checklist, then a patient doesn't leave the operating room. And you're thinking, where's my scalpel? Did you grab the scalpel out of them when we're sewing them up? Right.

It was just crazy things like that that happened. So they found like this author found that if you follow a checklist, like the probability of success is like so much higher. Same thing is true in business when it comes to documenting systems.

When I talk about a system, oftentimes people think we need to create a manual, a manual of operating procedures, and they immediately go into documentation mode. They're like, okay, we need to just write everything down and just create this big thing. When I was the CFO of this one company, we spent, I kid you not, a million dollars developing this standard operating procedure guide.

And it was robust. It's like that thick, had everything in it, but the culture wasn't set up to follow the manual. So we were in construction and let's just say a project manager has a question about something and they go to their supervisor and they say, Hey, I've got a question about this project.

Instead of the supervisor saying, go to section three and it's 3.2. There's all the instructions read that. And if you still have questions come to me instead of pointing them to that guide, they did it. They just answered the question.

So then the guy became obsolete. It's so much easier just to ask somebody, but every time you ask or you repeat the same thing over and over again, it just doesn't allow your business to be scalable. So like a checklist is super valuable.

When I was closing the books and doing financial reporting at a checklist, and it's like, okay, when you close the books, you do this, you do that, you do this. And then it's like, oh, dang it. I'm missing a step.

Let me add that to the checklist. And we just constantly iterate. And then when I went to go hire my replacement, I could say, here's the checklist and as videos and has all this, but it has to be embedded in the culture.

But if you don't have this, if you don't have things that are documented and you don't have systems, you're just repeating things over and over again, which just drives up costs. And it just introduces so much complexity and chaos into the business.

So what would you say to a founder who came to you and was like, “Steve, I already have a business where I already have SOPs”?
Sounds like they already have a lot of infrastructure already for their operations and procedures, but they're still stressed out. They're not profitable. What are you saying to them?

I mean, the way that I look at business is I like to insert myself in the team as like special forces because oftentimes companies are just bleeding, right? And when you look at the margin gap in a business, oftentimes you find like they're bleeding $5,000 a day.

What is the margin gap?
The margin gap is the difference between where you're operating right now from—let's just say—operating profit margin standpoint, versus where you could be if you just hit average. You become the average company. Or maybe you're operating as an average company—if you take your company to the next level. So it's your current state versus your potential state. And there's a gap, and that gap could be quantified. You can literally do a financial analysis and determine what is that gap in dollars.

And so, like I was saying, some businesses, it's like $5,000 a day. So I was talking to an owner once, and he's like, "Yeah, that's great. Give me until like next week and I'll get back to you." It's like 10 days later, and they're bleeding like five grand a day. I'm like, "Okay, you're going to bleed $50,000. Let's decide right now today. Let's get going. Let's close the gap."

So I like to, like I said, look at things as special forces—and it’s like: come into the business, fix things really fast, stabilize, and then watch the company grow and scale. Then once you get things stabilized, you have to do a deep dive into their business. Maybe the strategy that they’re pursuing from the past doesn’t work anymore. They have to redo the strategy. Maybe the operating model just doesn’t fit the current environment, or maybe competitors have come in and they’ve disrupted the business. So oftentimes that’s what I find.

I was just talking to a guy like literally right before lunch today. And he’s telling me how their business, they’ve been running for 75 years. And he’s like, “Steve, I think we’re still running off like a DOS system. I don’t even know if it works on Windows.” And they are running this multi-million dollar business on this janky software.

Talk about like—they have a system, but the system’s like completely outdated, right? And I think a lot of businesses, they just need to upgrade things, upgrade their systems, and make sure that the system still works.

Yeah. So how do owners and founders who have had these systems implemented for years and even decades—when is the turning point where they need to get a new one? And how do they identify that they do need a new system before it starts hurting them?

I think a crisis—the margin crisis—unfolds in three stages. And it begins with a strategic crisis.

Let me back up. I think every company has a strategy, right? It’s just whether the strategy is developed or documented. Because I’ve had people come to me like, “I don’t have a strategy, Steve. Can your company help me with putting in place a strategy?” I’m like, “Of course. But you do have a strategy. You’re pursuing something. You’re making decisions on a daily basis. You’re focusing on certain things. You’re allocating resources somewhere. That’s a strategy.” Right? It’s just not documented.

So first in the crisis, it starts with the strategy. The strategy is broken. It’s not clearly defined. People aren’t focused on solving constraints, right? They’re all over the place. And so the business starts to erode. And really, the symptoms are: revenue starts declining, it starts to turn flat, and then it shows up in margin. And then you lead into the next one, which is a profit crisis.

That’s the next phase. So like I said, your financials don’t look as good, you’re starting to leak profit, and you’re starting to feel a little bit of pain. So you’re looking at your income statement, you’re like, “Dang, our margin is going down. Our costs are going up. What’s going on?” Your KPIs don’t look great.

Then it advances really quickly into a liquidity crisis. And when you’re in a liquidity crisis, you’re drawing down on your line of credit. You’re tapping into your credit cards. You’re putting in your own personal money back into the business. And if you don’t fix the liquidity crisis, that’s when you go bust.

So it unfolds in three phases, but it doesn’t happen overnight. Very rarely it’s like: strategic crisis, next week is profit, liquidity, you’re out of business. It’s like it starts slowly. It starts with a bad strategy, and then it’s not fixed and it slowly erodes. And that’s the danger.

Circling back to the very beginning of our conversation, you talked about how you're doing all this work and grinding and then you get to the top of the mountain and you finally dig your head out of the sand and look around and you're alone.

Have you felt that building Coltivar and doing other things?

Yeah, that's a good question. I started Coltivar in 2009 and I was pouring so much time and energy into the business. And I'm like this crazy type A person, like you know me from working together. The busier I get, the more I take on, which is like absolutely backwards. Usually it's like, you don't have a lot to do so you take on more. I'm like the opposite.

So here I was in the early stages of Coltivar. I'm writing a book. I'm getting an MBA. I'm traveling around the country. I'm traveling around the world. And then I decide I should have a kid and run a marathon all at the same time. I kid you not.

And here I was in Berlin and just had a kid, my second kid, Max. My book just came out. I'm training for this marathon that's going to happen in a few when I get back. And I'm like, what am I doing?

And so this behavior repeated for a long time. I'm a very slow learner. I'm very stubborn, prideful. I don't know what it is, but I was doing this for a long time. And then eventually like COVID hit and it like forced me to stop.

So before I was flying around the country, going to boardrooms, you know, this is before zoom was pervasive. Cause like if I went to a client back in the day and said, Hey, let's just hop on a video call. Like Skype. They'd be like, what the heck is Skype? And no, you fly your butt here and sit in our, our boardroom.

So it's flying around to all these places, doing seminars, keynote speeches, all this stuff. And COVID hit. And it's like, my life came to a stop.

And before then I never took the time to process the pain that was accumulating in my life. And I just went numb. And when I was forced to stop, everything came flooding back in.

And I had to deal with a lot of things. I went through a divorce and I ended up giving away a lot of my wealth. Right. And it was definitely like a rock bottom point.

And I thought to myself, okay, as I reinvent my life, as I reinvent Coltivar, cause I shifted gears at Coltivar. I thought, how do I want to design my life moving forward? So I don't get to the top and I don't have a relationship with my kids. I've lost myself in the process. I'm not taking care of myself. I'm not sleeping on these health challenges, etc.

And trust me, I'm not there yet. Right. I, you know, like I come into the office, I'm like, I need to sleep more or I'm like, I was up thinking all night about the business.

So I'm definitely not there yet. I'm like so far off in a lot of ways, but I've recognized that there are things that I need to do like fix and say no to or sacrifice.

So I don't lose myself and I create that margin so I can focus on my faith and my family and like my hobbies and just other things that are important to me.

Do you think there will ever be the perfect balance of life and business and happiness while also being able to support you and your family? Or is there always just going to be a little struggle somewhere because nobody's perfect. Like my favorite saying, yeah. Pobody's nerfic. What is it? Pobody's nerfic. Pobody's nerfic.

Okay. No, I think, I mean, the balancing drives me crazy. Like anytime I do an interview with people or somebody will listen to my podcast, they'll reach out on LinkedIn. They're like, Hey, can I talk to you about like entrepreneurship? And it's usually a younger person. I'm like, yeah, I'll hop on for like 10 minutes.

And oftentimes they're like, so work life balance, let's talk about that. I'm like, there's no such thing. In fact, I was just talking to my wife last night. We went out for dinner and during the conversation, she was telling me how she's talking to her dad about something.

And her dad was like, never forget your vows. I remember what I said when I married you. Cause he married us. And during that, that whole ceremony, he said to us, he's like, it's like sometimes in marriage, it's going to be 30%, Steve, 70%, my wife, 50%, 50%.

And I know everybody says, no, it's a hundred percent. You got to put a hundred percent. Like I get that. Like, I'm not going to split hairs here, but it's like, sometimes it's going to be imbalanced.

It's not going to be like, Hey, I put in 50%. I'd be, you put in 50% or I put in a hundred percent. You put in a hundred percent or whatever. Right. It doesn't work that way.

So there's some times where I'm super like focused on work. There are other times where I spend a lot of time with my church responsibilities. Like I've had callings in my church that require a lot of my time, like working with the youth or whatever it may be. And there are other times where I don't.

So I just think that the idea of balance is just, is a false notion. What I've been trying to do more and more is just like, how do you integrate everything? So it's just one thing. And so for me, like my whole life is centered around like my faith and like serving God.

So it's like, okay, if I just focus on my one purpose is how do I become my best self and serve God so that I can like help other people in the process that I'm focused on one thing.

It just so happens. I do that in 50 other ways. So I do one thing in 50 ways versus I do 50 things. That's not centered in like a purpose. That's not grounded in something else.

It trickles into every other aspect of your life.

Exactly.

So we talked about building a business, being lonely. What about those people who are surrounded by family and coworkers constantly? How come they still feel lonely and no support?

That's a great question. And I do not claim to be like a therapist or like in tune with this stuff at all to share from my experience. So like I built businesses and I've reached like high levels of success and achievement. What's interesting is that I think when I'm down here on the bottom and I'm like, okay, when my book launches, oh my gosh, it's going to be great.

And I'm going to be so happy and so relieved and my life is going to be like so much better. I'm going to feel so much more joy. And then I get there and it's like, ah, and it quickly like wears out or I'm running this business and I'm like, okay, I'm running a multimillion dollar business and we're very successful, very profitable.

And then all of a sudden that starts to fade. And then you feel this like emptiness and loneliness. And I think it's because oftentimes like we get so focused on just like the temporal things of life, right? Just like the physical things, accumulating this, buying the house, getting the car, and we lose focus on like our bigger purpose, the bigger purpose.

Right. And when we lose track of that, then we, we fill our lives with things that can't fill the gap. They can't fill the void.

And it's kind of like the law of diminishing returns. And I have like some, my favorite restaurants, you have your favorite restaurants. Right.

And it's like, when you go there the first time, you're like, dude, I love this. This is like the best sushi ever. It's like, I can't imagine ever getting sick of this.

And then you go back and you're like, oh, it's just like, wasn't as good this time. And then you go back again and you go back in and you get food poisoning and you're like, okay. And then you never go back again.

Cause it's just like over time it like fades. And I think we live in a world where everything decays, right? Relationships decay. Unfortunately, you buy a car, it decays, it wears out, like everything decays.

And when we live in a world like that, it could just be lonely and empty. And I think that's a real struggle.

I think that's great because everyone is constantly chasing that dopamine rush and maybe their first thing, it's a big hit and it does well and they're successful. And they're like, okay, let me do another thing. And then it's kind of a let down or a downer.

What do you say to those people who are like, I don't know what to do anymore. I'm not happy. I don't know what my next best thing is. How am I going to be confident and settled with my current offer, current business right now?

Yeah. I mean, I think we were created to create, that's my belief. I believe if you follow the Bible, it's like you're created in the image of God and like God was creative. So like he made us to create.

So for me, and I can only speak for myself, when I'm creating, then I'm finding happiness, you know? But I think like there's also this false notion with happiness because when I was going through my divorce, life was terrible. It was like, deal with lawyers, dealing with just like breaking up a family. And even though it was like my decision, it still was like terrible, right?

And what's interesting is that during that year that was really hard, I also found a lot of joy. We sometimes mistakenly believe that if you have joy, it means that it's the absence of bad stuff, right? Or misery or whatever. It's like, you can only have joy if there's no, nothing going wrong. But I think like you can have everything going wrong and you can still feel joy.

And I don't have the answer to this because there've been times where it's like, I don't feel joy and I don't feel happy. But I think for me, when I get to that point, I'm like, okay, what's going on in my life? Because like I'm not being true to something. And when you're not being true to yourself, yeah, it's easy to feel that.

Right? So we all are created to do something. We're all creative people in a way. So if you're waking up day after day after day, and you're not feeling that joy and just you're lacking, you feel numb, it may be time to pivot, try new things, put yourself out there and look for things that will drive that lasting joy. Not that temporary joy.

Yeah. I think that's great.

And I hear you keep referencing back to your faith and it sounds like it's really woven into all aspects of your life. How has that guided you not only as a founder, but just as Steve, as a person?

I think the biggest thing and like the biggest learning point, I mean, I can be real with you. We have real hashtag real talk conversations. And in my early days, I was like such a jerk. Like you think I'm a jerk now, right?

No, I was going to try to catch you there. But no, back in the day, like when I was running my landscape business as in a bad relationship, I was drinking all the time. And I just, I wasn't nice. Like it'd be like a Wednesday night and I'd get like wasted. And I'd wake up the next day feeling terrible, the hangover.

And when you feel terrible, guess what? You're going to treat other people poorly because you feel terrible. Hurt people hurt people. Right.

And so here I was running this company. I wasn't always patient. I didn't always say the nicest things as just a jerk.

Okay. And then after my landscape business, then I started Coltivar early on. I like, I carried that same like ambition, aggression, high expectations, you know, that part of me that still creeps out to this day.

And I'd be very sharp with people and just very direct. And sometimes I'd go into companies. I'm like, just fix this. And that was not the best approach.

And so over time, like with my faith, it's taught me to show more grace and more forgiveness and more kindness and more patience towards people long suffering. And that's been the biggest thing.

And like, I am not perfect. Okay. If you don't believe me, just put like a webcam in my car. Sometimes people, I can get impatient on the roads and even at work, you know, sometimes when I'm stressful, you know, like sometimes I'll be just like very direct and I'm like, okay, I'm kind of moody today, but I try to implement like more compassion in my leadership.

And I think a lot of people are like, if you're kind, you're going to get taken advantage of. So you got to like yell and you got to be forceful. I'm like the Machiavellian way of leadership doesn't work. Like you can drive results in a Machiavellian type way, but love is, is what's going to drive like lasting results, lasting transformation.

So what you see make me really mad in the past and caused me to resent somebody. Now my perspective is like, huh, maybe they didn't mean that maybe they're struggling with their own things. And I'm able to show just a little bit more grace, compassion and forgiveness in the process, which has helped out quite a bit.

Yeah. I love that because part of being a human is recognizing that you are human. We're not meant to be evil and malicious to each other.

And so wrapping this up super high level, what are you saying to those founders who are listening? If they just take away one thing from this, what do you want them to take away?

I think that the biggest takeaway is how do you create margin in your life? And we started out the conversation Maiya about like financial margin. It's like, but it's not all financial margin. Like we talked about, I was like, you can have all the money in the world and lose yourself in the process, but it's like, how do you find margin capacity, leverage space? How do you create that in your life?

And I think it starts by eliminating complexity, eliminating friction, saying no to things, figuring out like who, like, who do you want to be? Like pick a direction, forget about everybody else says all their opinions. They're going to be gone one day from your life anyways, or they're going to be dead one day, not to be like dramatic, but it's like, forget about their opinions.

Just figure out what you want to do. Forget about their opinions and then just go grind, like put in the effort in a smart way. I'm not saying like grind and lose yourself, but like put forth the work, like, no, it's going to be hard. Stick to it, persevere and you will have a very abundant life.

Yeah. So that that's what I would say to founders who are listening.

Good. Yeah. It's all about the baby steps. You know, Rome wasn't built overnight. Can't build a successful business overnight.

Yeah. And I'll just say like, let me give a little, you know, shout out to Maiya here, because before we did this video, she's like, I am so nervous, Steve. And I can be very intimidating with my low eyebrows. I was getting there being on a camera.

You put a camera in front of us and all of a sudden you turn into like a weirdo, but you know, my, um, she's grown like in tremendous ways since starting at Coltivar and she's very design oriented, very brilliant. So I guess, um, for you, like listening to, to me talk about this stuff and like, even in your life, what, what would you say to somebody who is up and coming and who wants to become like a business owner or a founder or a CEO or an executive? Like, what are some things that you've learned?

One thing I think I just want to echo off of you is just like, be true to you. I always think about when I first interviewed with you, it was, you asked me like, you don't put up like a fake face, right? Like we're just straight up here. We're very comfortable with each other. It's like, when you come to work, you're you, you're not work you, you're just you.

And so I think that's the best thing is just be true to you, what you want. Don't let the comments from others try to manipulate your path. So I think that's just really what it can boil down to.

I love it. It's been a great conversation and I look forward to many more.

That was good.